Hi - FB Sprint

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Profile marsinph
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Message 454 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 19:04:43 UTC

Hello everyone,
I think, the most of you knows who I am.
Not only here but on SETIBZH and also on all PRJ (due to Wide team in sense of Berkeley).
I am sad, like you. But it is. Admin of WEP seems to not react. Or not take action.
I have read all your comments. I fully agree. I mean fully agreee about bad managment.

Now, we, all of us who post reply, we are on race Formula Boinc.
All of us try to get the most point on FB.
Please, let me, allow me, to make a reflexion !
We race , all benefits for all PRJ. Everybody for his (her, I not forget womens) favorite.
Nice for scientist. But is it the most important in 2020 ?
With this fuc..g virus ? All of us are concerned, from close or far (I have chance, nobody in my family is reached)

Philosophical but realistic thinking ;
What I wanted to say : we all of us, cruncher, with all our computing power, it will be perhaps beter to concentrate all on research against it.
But never forget it is a virus (like AIDS) and against virus, we nothing can do. Only our body can win the fight.

I am surprised : no any (exept WCG , a very few) start, launch,... analyzes !!!
We, all of us, have a wonderfull computing power...

Sorry, I appologyze, this post have very few to make with the problem of the PRJ.
Take care. Stay at home.
The latest, US friends, you make me scare ! I see all your manifestation against the death of mistet Floyd. I fully without restristion support you. But please, put masker !!!

Best greetings from Belgium to everyone

Eventually bearnol, act instead of escape without any explanation.
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Profile marsinph
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Message 455 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 19:06:11 UTC - in response to Message 453.

Yeah, I could simply abort the many hundreds of completed WUs stuck in the pipe if bearnol would simply indicate that they will expire without being credited. Being kept in suspense and having to keep trying to contact the server is just no fun.



Hello, i understand your frustration. you are not alone. Not cancel, with hope admin will react !

Profile bearnol
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Message 456 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 19:45:15 UTC - in response to Message 455.

Thank you all (again), for both your messages of support, and criticism.
I do recognise that there has been some frustration recently. I think this is mainly due to the increase in relative speeds of everyone else’s computers, for which I guess we should all be grateful. Hopefully we are all on the side of BOINC tho’ , in general. (And actually I am personally very grateful to Formula Boinc for bringing in some excellent crunching over the years).
With regard to the person who asked re cancelling current workunits: I’m not really planning to restart the server’s processing for a little while, to give the rate a chance to cool somewhat.
With regard to those of you seeking deadline extensions etc.: I’ve always believed that my project serves a role to hardware beta testers in providing a quick and easy validatory benchtest, so I actually prefer a quick turnaround ( tho I could be imagining that :) The same argument applies, with varying reasoning, to still having fairly short workunits, which I, and a number of others since the start of the project, have said they liked. Conceivably I made a small mistake releasing ARM apps which run somewhat slower , reducing the scope for increasing wu length, but I think on balance this added to the project (and the ARM chips continue to improve in speed :) )
If you all become enough of a pain protesting ( :) ) , or if my trusty little server does eventually bite the dust, then hopefully I will upgrade at some point [though I haven’t really done any live speed comparisons with my replacement candidate servers, so I don’t know exactly how much faster they would be], but in the meantime please recognise that 1) I am obviously always very grateful to any and all of you who have given me constructive crunching over the years, but that 2) I am just one person and operating on a limited budget.
On a constructive note: I refer you (once again) to the thread I linked to above, in case anybody feels like branching out in pursuit of these Mersenneplustwo factors!
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davidBAM
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Message 457 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 19:59:40 UTC - in response to Message 456.
Last modified: 5 Jun 2020, 20:02:05 UTC

so I actually prefer a quick turnaround


I've given you a quick turnaround 15711 completed WU in the 48hrs since the sprint was announced. They are uploaded and ready to report. Same as they were the last two times your server lost my work (outside challenges)

And you are about to flush them down the toilet as soon as you turn on your server processing !!

VietOZ
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Message 458 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 20:44:56 UTC - in response to Message 456.

fair enough. At least we now know what to do instead of waiting and hoping for the next few days. 12k WUs lost, but all good. Good luck with everything in the future.

crashtech
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Message 459 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 20:48:06 UTC

I feel as if there is not a really good understanding that we simply need a one-time deadline extension to deal with the thousands of work units that are completed but not able to be uploaded in a timely way due to the server being overwhelmed. Oh well, it will be a loss to everyone including the project if this does not happen.

davidBAM
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Message 460 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 21:00:32 UTC - in response to Message 459.

yup - I figure it would only take a single SQL statement to add 5 days to all extant WU

Megacruncher TSBT
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Message 461 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 22:11:44 UTC

I've got 3798 WU all completed within deadline. If they, and my time and electricity are wasted, then not only will this project lose out on all that work but I'll not be back and I can't imagine that this project will ever be picked again for any competition.

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Message 462 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 23:24:30 UTC

It saddens me to see my "Fellow Crunchers" told basically Your Time and Electricity don't matter.
I'm glad I don't have a dog in this fight as I'm down for the summer pretty much (Heat and cost of said electricity). I get the impression that the "Admin"(Bearnol) doesn't really need/want our/your help in this project.

ChelseaOilman
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Message 464 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 0:14:52 UTC

What's sad is the guy running Formula BOINC sprints allowing a tiny project like this to be selected for a sprint with all you bunker experts that know full well your tactics would likely take the site down as soon as you all tried to dump your bunkers at once. This project never should have been on the list or selected for a sprint. The site was running just fine until you all showed up trying to out do each other. I'll still be here crunching tasks for bearnol long after your all gone. I hope you have better luck with the project you pick for the next sprint.

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Message 465 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 1:24:33 UTC - in response to Message 464.

Chelsea I agree it should have never been on the list for "Any type" of competition.
But when crunchers are only asking for a slight time extension so the finished work will count is rebuffed. That is also sad.

As I said "I don't have a dog in this fight" just a spectator on this one.

[H]auntjemima
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Message 466 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 2:07:55 UTC - in response to Message 464.

What's sad is the guy running Formula BOINC sprints allowing a tiny project like this to be selected for a sprint with all you bunker experts that know full well your tactics would likely take the site down as soon as you all tried to dump your bunkers at once. This project never should have been on the list or selected for a sprint. The site was running just fine until you all showed up trying to out do each other. I'll still be here crunching tasks for bearnol long after your all gone. I hope you have better luck with the project you pick for the next sprint.


Hey CO!

Unless I am missing something, I believe each year projects are asked if they want to be involved in the sprints that year. This project would have had to agree, which means it can be picked at any time.

Completely agree on your other point, though. This is a known small project, its known it will go down under heavy load and yet people rush here and bring it to its knees and then complain the entire time.

As far as the points go, I think the admin is making a bad decision by not extending the task time. 5 days as suggested before would do SOMETHING to alleviate the potential for missing points, even if the sprint is only 3 days long.

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Message 467 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 2:16:57 UTC

Well, if he was asked if he wanted to be included on the list of projects for the FB sprints, which I'm not sure of, I'm sure he had no clue what he was getting himself into. As for changing the expiration time for his tasks, why should he? You all went into it knowing about the 2 day limit but decided to go for it anyways. A project admin shouldn't change things about his project just because things aren't going your way.

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Message 468 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 2:46:06 UTC - in response to Message 467.

Well, if he was asked if he wanted to be included on the list of projects for the FB sprints, which I'm not sure of, I'm sure he had no clue what he was getting himself into. As for changing the expiration time for his tasks, why should he? You all went into it knowing about the 2 day limit but decided to go for it anyways. A project admin shouldn't change things about his project just because things aren't going your way.


As you know, I don;t really participate in the FB sprints anymore since last years sprint fiasco(s). I am only here because I run WEP2 occasionally and I happened to look at my FB tab thats still open and thought, why not? When the server was down, I came here and here we are. I moved back to other projects, so no loss here at all. I didn't even do a single task.

Projects are designed to have users offer their processing power. If people overwhelm the system and it takes some time to process, ok. This seems like a case of the servers being overwhelmed and the admin shutting down portions for the time being, effectively preventing completed work from reporting. That is bullshit, quite frankly.

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Message 469 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 2:50:39 UTC

If I may say a word in my own defense, I really had no idea about the size of this project at all. I joined it a few years ago when I was still a crunching noob and only running Windows, obviously that did not work out! Now that I have some dedicated Linux hosts, I thought I might finally be able to do some work for the project. I was wrong.

It's not the end of the world if my efforts and those of other competitors are unwelcome. I think it should go without saying that we won't repeat our mistake!

Cheers to all my fellow crunchers. :)

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Message 470 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 9:35:25 UTC - in response to Message 469.

For what it's worth, I am sitting on 21,189 fully-crunched and (now) mostly-expired tasks. I'd taken a general guess that this project might be chosen and also spent a bunch of time fiddling hosts and cache over the run-up to maximise impact. That's all in a big black hole now.

Ideally the processed units are ultimately credited rather than expired but it looks like that opportunity has probably passed ...

In any case, my threads are back on preferred projects and I will also return to wanless here and there to help out - at a more suitable scale level of course!

Hope you all manage to get a bit of extra crunching on your preferred projects now - happy crunching folks :)

P.S. I will mention again that I think that the Covid sub-project of WCG would be an ideal sprint target, as some kind of 'special project'. I have no idea how feasible that is, but it would make more sense than tackling alpha-scale maths projects right now!

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Message 471 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 9:52:10 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jun 2020, 10:51:41 UTC

Hi everyone,

Just as others have said, I am disappointed that we are in the current situation and it is obvious to me that some sort of compromise solution should be made to help resolve the situation.

Obviously, people who've spent time and money on hardware and electricity to support this project would like to see a "return" so I cannot see the harm in extending the deadline (though in the current FB Sprint, it might mean that UK BOINC Team loses it's 1st place).

Secondly, it does seem unfair on everyone who has supported this project, that the admin of this project is purposely denying anyone from earning any credits, just so they can let things "calm down" - because the longer this goes on, the MORE damage is being done to the reputation of this project.

And the end result will probably be that every member of every FB Sprint team will simply refuse to process any further tasks from Wanless project.

Thirdly, it does seem strange that the project hardware has not been upgraded, especially since the admin of the project has allowed the project to be included in FB Marathons and Sprints.

So, "bearnol" - please do the right thing for those who've supported you - extend the deadline - and at least keep some people happy.

You should then contact Sebastien and remove the Wanless project from inclusion in their Challenges...that will allow you to keep the existing hardware.

Alternatively, put a link on your home page, asking for "donations" and I'm sure some members might be willing to offer you a nice condition replacement server, or even some $$ to help you purchase a new one. (You seem to have around 154 "active" users running tasks, so if everyone gave you $2-5, you could get a new mobo and memory and even a nice fast SSD - or just upgrade your broadband connection with Virginmedia ?)

But, admin, please DO SOMETHING, instead of referring people to old posts and closing down your server...as both these actions do not actually help ANYONE.

Simply burying your head in the sand is only putting off the issue and it will still require effort on another day - so why not put in the effort NOW?.

best regards
Tim
Founder, UK BOINC Team

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Message 472 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 11:16:42 UTC

challenge bunkering causes problems on a small project - again

lots of BAWWWWW about "unfairness" to bunkerers and how it makes the project look BADDDDD

i'm sorry, but expecting the admin to jump through hoops to help is unreasonable when presented with this behaviour

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Message 473 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 11:47:22 UTC - in response to Message 471.

Hello everyone,
I fully agree and support the post of UBT-Timbo.
He summarize absolutely all.
I was preparing a very similar post. But my english level is not at top.
Thank you Tim

Bearnoil need to do something.

Best regards
Philippe
Founder of BOINC.BE

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Message 474 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 12:35:08 UTC - in response to Message 472.
Last modified: 6 Jun 2020, 12:35:57 UTC

challenge bunkering causes problems on a small project - again

lots of BAWWWWW about "unfairness" to bunkerers and how it makes the project look BADDDDD


This issue HAS happened before and those projects in the past, were voted OFF the FB Marathon and FB Sprint project lists.

So, the expectation was that remaining projects DID have the capacity to deal with a very large increase in uploads/downloads.

And the project admin here should have perhaps realised that...and put in a little effort "just in case". But that didn't happen, so the admin should accept responsibility for that failure.

i'm sorry, but expecting the admin to jump through hoops to help is unreasonable when presented with this behaviour


I would disagree with you - adjusting the server settings as a "one off" to get through this "problem" is NOT "jumping through hoops"...it is a simple code change, which, if put in place 30 minutes after the server started dropping out, (and one assumes the admin would receive a "notification" that something was wrong) so this COULD have prevented this entire situation occurring.

But it has been left, with nothing done and time moves on, tasks go past their deadlines and many users are upset/annoyed that the admin seems to have done NOTHING constructive.

If someone is in charge of a situation, that then goes out of control, then the obvious thing to do, is to rectify the problem as soon as one can.

Shutting down the server is one way, but it isn't the best solution...as it only helps the admin...it does nothing to help the affected users.

And that's where the problem is now...as the project will probably suffer as no-one will want to process tasks, voluntarily and at the users expense, if they are seen to be treated badly.

regards
Tim
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